*The script of Sri.Sanjay Jha’s Zoom meeting with different chapters of the Idea of Congress on Tuesday 30th June 2020*
Sanjay Jha :
This what i wrote, let me repeat that…
That a dramatic turnaround is needed because Congress is the only Bulwark, or crucial linchpin against the authoritarian juggernaut that is the current BJP led regime, which is decimating institutions polarizing society, marginalizing disadvantaged sections in destroying the core foundations of Indian democracy itself. If you feel that is wrong. I would love to hear that a little later during the during the conversation. I also wrote, India needs a rewakened and revitalized Congress Party. Ready to win the second freedom of struggle against dark oppressive forces. We must do the heavy lifting. And one more and then we are done.
I wrote that we suggest that there should be elections to the post of the Congress President and the CWC , which must be held under an independent, nonpartisan body, because ultimately sunlight as they say is the best disinfectant. It will actually motivate and strengthen the entire organization apparatus. And then let me read out to you my last paragraph, it is significant. India’s destiny is inextricably intertwined with that of the Congress Party. In saving ourselves, we will save a country that deserves better, one which has been currently manipulative with dazzling lies and vicious propaganda.
No one can build a future with sertitute. But a rejuvenated and resurgent Congress Party is the need of the hour. This oped is our commitment, to push Congress boost is to realise its potential. It is an urgent need. And that process needs to start now. The clock is ticking. This is what Salman Soz and I wrote. This is why many people in the Congress Party got very upset with me, and probably have told me not to be the spokesperson for the party anymore.
Question 1
Like I said, I come from the background of communication. And what I see around me is that Congress fighting the perceptions, with the logic. So, my question has an origin from there, even if Congress, asks Mr Sanjay Jha what is your four point agenda, you will suggest the party for internal restructuring, as well as communication bias for the external …..?(audio unclear)
By *Vishaka Sharma , IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha:
I will answer that, Vishaka, I was hoping, that you probably, I am assuming have not read my article of 3/5/2020 which came out in The Times of India when they offered you’d have seen the suggestions are very simple I’ll repeat it for your benefit.
*Number one, please have elections to the post of the Congress working committee and the Congress president. You know something, you can’t have a party like the grand old party of the Congress, where everything is obeyed. Members of the Congress working committee are appointed by the Congress president, nobody’s saying that the Congress president will appoint dunderheads in their job, but at the end of the day, these are responsible positions and people within the Congress Party have a right to contest and say, wevare willing to run this party at the highest level. You can’t, you know, like for example, if Ajit tomorrow becomes a head of our organization here, and you know we tell him, you choose five people, when maybe there are five other people who will be more competent, he will choose people he’s comfortable with. And that’s when the whole unfortunate reality in the whole coterie culture begins to come in. Like Vishaka, if you choose me, it’s gonna be much harder for me to protest against you when you go wrong as I will say, Hey, Vishakha sort it out, I won’t rebel. But I think that transparency is important *Point number two, I said is it is impossible for the Congress President to run 29 states and UTs and all that, you know, you need to decentralize power. So the solution I gave was along with Salman, of course, whether we should have five regional vice presidents, one regional president North who takes care of the northern states, one for southern states, you know, India has a diverse country. People from the south love the Congress, people of the North right now are disillusioned with the Congress, how do you explain that the Northeast needs a different Vice President, the East needs a different Vice President, the West needs a different Vice President. Now instead of Congress Party president chasing 29 people. He works with five, who in turn, manage the states within them. This is how you will create future Presidents and new leaders.
*The third suggestion I gave was, you should have a limited tenure for the Congress President. The Congress president must have a three year tenure at the most, if they do very well and they get the confidence, they get a renewal for another three years, but at the end of six years, I don’t care whether the Congress President was X Y or Z, even if you win a big general election with 400 seats, you make way for somebody else. You know, Barack Obama did not get a third term, probably would have beaten Trump. You got to move on, you got to give chances to other people. So to give you an example, the BJP in the last, I don’t know how many years has had eight to 10 presidents. We have had only two. And I think this is where democracy becomes a question mark. Today, in what I’m recommending in the next 30 years, either you have 10 Congress presidents or at least you have a minimum of five.
And what makes you think that we don’t have the talent. We have more talent than the BJP, are we getting a chance?
*Point number four, I mentioned that the Congress party must have a Shadow Cabinet, or finance, or home, or external affairs, or health, or HRD, you know, four key functions, defense, you need that because you know, that’s the only way to keep the government on its toes. Formally appoint that cabinet. The second government in waiting. Today Chidambaram could actually be your finance minister in waiting, I mean I’m just giving you my word I would do such a thing. Shashi Tharoor could be the external affairs minister. Maybe Kapil Sibal in defense, maybe Manish Tewari in I&B, you know whatever you would have eight or 10 portfolios monitoring the government day in and day out,
*and the other point that I mentioned, there are many, but you asked for four, giving you the fifth one, I mentioned that the Congress Party actually disclose all corporate money that it gets in its party’s funding. Become transparent, neutralise. The bjp is getting 95% of the electoral funds, coming through electoral bonds, they are getting all this money from corporates. The Congress Party says I am willing to come under the RTI for funding, the bjp will be forced to do that as well and that’s how you seize the initiative.
So my larger point here is, you know, if the Congress Party makes these changes, trust me, you will win 2024, you will win, 2024, otherwise we can all come in the group, put out compassionate stuff, and yet be on the losing side. In order to protect the ideology of the Congress, we got to start winning elections, and to win elections, you got to renew your organization bottom up.
Question. 2
Mr. Jha you have had proximity to power within the party. Do you think you can tap into it to bridge the ever widening communication gap between the top leadership and lower level organisation ?
By *Immanuel, IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha:
Something I can tell you, i it’s a great tragedy that that your question becomes so pertinent, your question Emmanuel is so pertinent. You know, think about it what is the job of a political leadership, who makes you win ? The ordinary man on the street. Right. People like all of us here on this chat at 3.30 pm today, we’re gathered together , we are all passionate believers in an inclusive secular liberal India. Right. By the way, it’s not just me alone. Why can’t many Congress leaders who we believe in, should live in an ivory tower. Why can’t they be talking to the IOC to the ideas of Congress, let’s answer the question. I mean, today, it’s the job of every Congress leader to move away from Delhi. Talk to people, you know, do it in groups of 30-40. Ajit has got 30 people, do it with 30 people. You will, you are intelligent people , you’ll are influencers, opinion makers. I mean I respect your sentiments, wherever you are, I believe, to answer your question, it can be bridged. But as long as we sit in Delhi and we choose to work in this limited circle of people who are only telling us the good news. You know I give you my example, I had a boss who once told me, “As and when you rise up the escalator, the corporate escalator. It gets lonelier.
Never surround yourself with people who come and tell you everything is hunky dory. All you need to do is to get yourself people who come and tell you what is the bad news first. And I believe in it, in my company every Monday between nine to 10.00 we have a conference call. And I talk probably 10% of the time. And that’s the way it should be in the Congress party today. Besides, to talk to people, I mean in our digital world, Mr Gandhi can do it. All the top, top titans of the Congress party can do it, do it with as many people, do it in Chennai, people from all walks of life, believe me, things can change dramatically.
Question. 3
Mr Jha, does the party have an internal redressal system in place, if so, what is it and has it worked, since airing grievances in public platforms give fodder to our opponents and are prone to repercussions within?
By *Juliana Leslie, IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha :
Well my simple answer is, if there were internal formats that were active dynamic and working I don’t think somebody like me and Salman Soz would write an article in the Times of India. So if there is, we haven’t heard of it. And if and, frankly, even if it is there it’s probably non operative.
Let me tell you. We got to fix our house which is in disorder. It doesn’t matter what the BJP says. If tomorrow there are 5 people who are not happy with the bjp, we will go ahead and say hey look the bjp is not able to manage it’s own people, don’t worry about what the neighbours said, if the house was in order the neighbours wouldn’t complain. I think we waste our time on what the bjp is doing. If you get our house in order, who’s gonna challenge you? The Congress Party has got talent, it’s got zeal, it’s got a lot of strengths going, but we are allowing our strengths to dissipate.
Question. 5
Mr. Jha, why did you choose to dilute the substance of your message with a poor choice of messaging tools?
By *Jennifer Fernandes. IOC, Mumbai chapter*.
Sanjay Jha :
Its a simple answer to that. Relieve me of the fact. The fact that Shahzad is somebody who’s become very hostile to the Gandhi family. I was fully aware that Shezad is very hostile to the Congress and you know is very hostile to the Gandhi family, but you know what I am a big believer in one thing. If you have a clear conscience, it doesn’t matter who you speak to. I was aware that Shehzad would play it up. I was even aware that Shehzad would try and corner me. How does it matter. I mean, a grand old party, which has run this country for 55 of the 73 years,
can’t be insecure and frightened of one Shehzad Poonawaala for heaven’s sake. I’m going on and doing what I believe is the right view of the Congress. I know from a lot of people, who called me from the Congress, they said, actually, you know you’re bearded the lion in its own den, and you know a lot of people also said this is bad optics because you go with Shehzad, it will look like you know you are actually augmenting his kind of anti Congress data, I didn’t know that. Right. I said at the beginning I said at the end. He asked me several times, if I will go to the bjp, my answer was a categorical No, and I’m telling you that I tweeted today and I’ll say it again. I am wedded, I am loyal to the Congress ideology. I will never be loyal to an individual. By the way, the country is bigger than a political party, a political party is bigger than an individual, right? And we should never forget that. I mean, the beauty of Congress and I’ll just quote to you Jennifer, Voltaire, I think he quoted into somebody’s show, ” I may not agree with you. But I will die, I will die to defend your view”. I mean that is the real Congress. Feroze Gandhi exposed corruption in Nehru’s cabinet. That congressman taking on his own father in law, his own. Rahul Gandhi’s own grandfather challenged his great grandfather, exposed corruption in his government, both Congressman and the finance minister TT Krishnamacharya had to resign! That is the Congress party that I believe I am part of. I’m sorry that I am still going to believe that ! I gave you Nehru’s example who criticized himself, so no I don’t think about mediums.
I believe we should speak the truth without fear and speaking truth to power is what will make the Congress Party come back.
Question. 6
So, Sanjay, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak with you. So, my question was, when you felt this kind of discontent with it. Why did you not first speak to your own team and by your own team I mean, the AIPC, and not to say AIPC Maharashtra Why did you not think of bringing all of us together all the AIPC members together, why don’t you not insist that this is something that we need to take up to the central leadership notices that we can contribute we can make a difference. We can also plan and suggest to help the public?
By *Seroja, IOC Bangalore chapter*
Sanjay Jha :
Do it now Seroja, It’s never too late. And by the way, I was, I was having several conversations with some of the stalwarts of the Congress Party. Everyone’s saying the same thing and persons in private are worried, very worried about the future of the Congress. None of the people that I talked to were talking about, you know, what’s in it for them. You know I have never asked by the way, let me tell you, you guys are friends, I’ve neve r bothered about a Lok Sabha, a Rajya Sabha. You know, all that crap either. byy the way I was made spokesperson when I was in New York. And for a lot of people who don’t know I’ve been working with the Congress Party pre 2004. When we were written off. And I remember meeting Mrs Gandhi in February of 2004. When Vajpayee was expected to win over 300 seats and the Congress 90, so I’ve been with the Congress when it was down in the dumps. And I said earlier, to answer your question, you gotta speak your mind out, and I put my cards on the table. So nothing stops AIPC for working with me right now in saying, Okay, how do we work with you know to revitalize the Congress, the issues that I raised cannot be ignored or nor do they change because you ignored them. They are a reality. Like it or not, I have enough people who come and tell me that if the Congress party does not sort out its leadership problems soon, you’ll vanish into extinction. Why is it that today, people are unhappy with Narendra Modi on migrants, on economy or China or governance on everything, and yet Modi continues to be the most popular leader?
I think all of us need to ask ourselves these questions. They are. But if you don’t take the bull by the horns, ladies and gentlemen. Nothing is gonna change.
Question. 7
My question is on the suggestion that you had given, about an alternative government or what you call a Shadow Cabinet. Now I have two questions about it, though I had thought of only one. The first is when you put out a Shadow Cabinet, don’t you risk, the people involved to be sitting ducks, where the government, their administration, the pliant media, everybody witch-hunt them, and secondly doesn’t it somehow negate the whole process of democracy because you are saying that, that Mr Chidambaram would be the finance minister. But, whether Mr Chidambaram would win the next election or not, is a question?
By *Celine Mary, IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha:
So a purpose of a Shadow Cabinet is not to say that these are the people who go to be my next cabinet. The purpose of the Shadow Cabinet is not to say that, you know, that there won’t be some internal tensions, you know, some people will feel Oh, it’s Chidambaram for finance, so now the road is blocked for the others. No. You know the Westminster model which the British parliamentary democracy does, is you know what what it basically does, is it energizes a party. Think hypothetically, what if Shashi Tharoor today was the health minister. Okay. What if for example Sachin Pilot was your Home Minister. What if today, P. Chidambaram was the finance minister, or for example it Dipindra Rohra was your agriculture minister, what happens, is that these guys are then monitoring the portfolio’s of the BJP government. They are holding press conference. The media then flock to you, when the media comes to you to say hey, what is this alternative ministry having to say on this particular government. It actually, you know, gets your research team to work and support it , it is basically a parallel government in waiting, and the public gets a solid confidence by looking at the difference in talent. And you know, think about it for Celine for a moment . Chidambaram, because his name keeps coming up all the time, he is like heads and shoulders above Sitharaman.
Okay, on external affairs would you even compare I mean, do you know Jaishanker with Shashi Tharoor, I mean Tharoor is brilliant Jaishankar is the regular bureaucrat, he is a good guy I’m not saying he’s a bad guy, but he doesn’t compare with Tharoor at all. Look at Rajnath Singh in defense. Or what, if you had say for example a Kapil Sibal in defense, what you have done is you have compared them, now think the public perception, they say, “Oh, you know what, I like the people in the Congress, you look good”. And these are not people just sitting and giving a press conference, they’re actually asking questions. And as far as a witchhunt, you can’t be in politics with all these kind of fears, they will come up to you. So what? You know Chidambaram was in jail for 100 days, you know what he did? On the day he came out, he took a press conference and took on the government on economic data. Don’t worry, in politics, we are all thick skinned we can take anything that comes.
Question.8
Hi Sanjay Sir,
Do you really believe that bjp is going to start being more transparent, if INC disclosed all the funding details voluntarily, given the role that media has been playing since 2014?
By *Anukumar, IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha:
Well, I’ll tell you what, you know, supposing there are two big parties. Okay, let’s just put it like this, what if BJP was in our boots and we were in BJP boots. And if the Congress Party was taking money in electoral boards, which is opaque, not telling you who gave the money. Now think if Modi, as an opposition leader held a press conference, of course did it with style and panache, you know, brought the entire country to, to kind of a standstill, announced that the BJP will come under the RTI act and will disclose each and every rupee coming into a party. Now we challenge Rahul Gandhi or whoever is the prime minister or the president of the Congress party you disclose all the money, the people of the country want to know. Do you think you will be able to hide for too long? The perception will be that you’re corrupt that you’ve got a quid pro quo money, and that you have something to hide. Anu, This is not just about doing the right thing, it is doing it with style and panache. Giving it a political flavor, getting maybe civil society, social media, politics into the game, taking to the streets, of course it can be done. If the Congress does it. let me tell you, the BJP will be forced to follow it. Do it right . Let me be honest with you, we go and we say electoral bonds are fraud. But aren’t we also taking money, a little even if it’s 5%, you’re taking it. You’re equally guilty and stupid. If you’re taking 5% , you should say no to 5% and I will make sure that your 95% doesn’t come.
Question. 9
Mr Jha – Do you think we can emulate Shah and Modi’s modus operandi for the INC, like DKS as CP and RG continuing his attacks on the functioning of the government?
By *Rohit Borana, IOC Pune Chapter*
Sanjay Jha:
What structure the Congress Party has, who should be the Congress president these are things we should leave to the democratic institution to find for itself, that’s what I’m fighting for. I’m like, come on guys, we got so much of talent in the party. If Supposing today four people decide that they can be a potential Congress President, let them put their hat in the ring, let them be, let the better person win, simple. Mr Gandhi said he doesn’t want to comeback and he doesn’t want the family members to come back, and if it is a non Gandhi family member who becomes the Congress President, what makes you think that the Congress Party will break up. I mean this is all mythical, exaggerated, fanciful, conversation and they have no base at all. Mr Gandhi by the way I believe will continue to be the party’s star campaigner. He draws crowds, he’s very popular, he’s got a phenomenal Twitter following. I mean how everybody adjusts is up to them and I want to give you one example, you know, Sachin Tendulkar gave up his captaincy to play under Saurav Ganguly ,who became the greatest Indian Captain till he was taken over by Dhoni, who became an even bigger cricket captain. And guess what, Tendulkar’s dream of winning the World Cup came under a man who was 12 years his junior which was Dhoni.
There’s a learning there. You don’t have to be the captain, to be part of a winning team.
Question. 10
Tell us three things that you have learned, being in the political field and being in the Congress as a spokesperson of the party, that can be a guiding thing for youngsters like me?
By *Bhavya Narasimhamurthy, IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha:
You asked me today what I believe and I’m telling you straight from my heart. I believe any politician who doesn’t think about public service first is corrupt , crooked and cunning. I don’t care which party. I’m in politics for only one reason, but it’s about the fact that if I am in politics I need to be accountable.
I can’t tell you one thing today, do something else tomorrow. I live in India and I’m sorry to say this, 95% of politicians in India, don’t speak the truth. And they include people from the BJP, Congress and all parties, and that’s a tragedy. But we need to change that. That 5% needs to become at some point 95%. The Indian politics frankly is a long way to go. My second learning, – Be true to your ideology. I am not leaving the Congress which is why I’m so fearless, the party has now removed me from whatsapp groups, have sacked me as a national spokesperson. I’ll tell you something, between 2013-2014, I defended Dr.Manmohan Singh like nobody in the government could. I met him for the first time, I will share this anecdote with you, I was very humbled and I said, Dr. Singh, an honour to meet you, he patted me and took me by the side and said, ” I want to tell you one thing. Thank you very much for fighting for me the way you did, when nobody was willing to even defend me as a Prime Minister”. And after I heard that, you think I would have any fear of telling the Congress party that you should have elections? You think honestly I should have fears? No. And my third learning. You know truth sooner or later, always wins, always wins. And the moment you walk with fear, log kya kahenge, then you go back to the famous Rajesh Khanna song, log toh kahte rahenge. You have to decide what is the truth. Truth is non negotiable. And that’s the only conscious you have when you go to bed.
Question. 11
When and why did you decide to immerse yourself in politics?
By *Paul Koshy, IOC main group*
Sanjay Jha :
In 2004 I got a call from Jairam Ramesh, who met my wife accidentally, and my wife said my husband is a crazy guy for your party and Jairam said, “hey call me because Mrs Gandhi is going for an interview to Shekhar Gupta’s Walk The Talk or something”. And, you know, since he’s a Carnegie guy, maybe he can come in and discuss about communication and blah blah blah so I landed at 10 Janpat in 24 hours out of the blue, and I met Mrs Gandhi. And this was when the Congress was expecting 90 seats, and from starting to work with her on communication I sat with Jairam, Salman Khurshid, we worked on the campaign, guess what. We won the 2004 elections I consider myself quite a mascot for the Congress Party actually. So I think they’re making a terrible mistake by not being nice to me. Don’t worry, I’ll keep working hard for the Congress Party.
Guys, you guys have been awesome.
Thank you very much indeed !